One thing you would notice very quickly about Norwegians is that we are not overly polite or correct. We may forget to say please after every single thing we say, and we don't even say "enjoy" to our fellow diners before we dig into our plates. We do not always hold the door open for the next person, and the use of the polite form of "you" (Sie in German or vous in French), is a definite no-no, even though it does exist.
The thing with Norwegians and manners is not that we do not have any - which you might be forgiven for thinking sometimes - but that they are somewhat different than outside of Norway or Scandinavia.
To me, it seems as we do not care too much about correctness in our ways (like using the correct title or the polite forms) when we interact with people. The Norwegian "politeness" lies more in being friendly with people than in correctness. To me, there is nothing ruder than people being very correct and at the same time very unfriendly, like Germans telling you off in very correct language, or a Frenchman telling you to kiss his ass and at the same time being sure to use the polite vous-form (although I admit there is a certain elegance to that last one).
My girlfriend is learning some Norwegian at the time, and the other day she wanted to ask me in Norwegian to bring her an apple from the kitchen. But she could figure out how to say "please" at the end, so she asked me; "how do you say 'please' in Norwegian?" "You don't!", I said, without really thinking much about what I said, and she broke out in laughter. The way I said it might have sounded as if "please" was the worst you could have said. But it is true - we don't really say please that much. When you ask somebody something in the form of "can you...", that is already polite enough, and the "please" wouldn't be necessary. It would just sound ridiculous. The next day we went over to a couple we know (the girl is Norwegian). Just to check out if it is just me being particularly unmannered or not, we asked her what she would say in that situation. My girlfriend asked her, "wouldn't you say 'please' then?" "No! Do you want me to beg, or what?", she said..
Actually, in that situation, it would be less polite to say "bring me an apple, please" than just "can you bring me an apple?" I think it's got something to do with the phrase being formed as a question that gives you a choice, and not as a command. If someone were telling me to do something in Norwegian, I would be far less tempted to do that than if they had asked me to do it. And with a smile on top of that again, how could I not?
Wednesday, May 7, 2008
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With adults, I can't say I don't mind the missing please so much-because when you do hear it, it seems so much more genuine then in the States where it's said all the time. Even when people are trying to be rude here in the States, they say please-imagine how confusing it gets...especially if you aren't a native speaker!
However, with kids, it's a different story. Norwegian kids never seem to say please or thank you for anything...and def feel a sense of entitlement TO EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING which in my culture is very rude.
I guess it's no getting around that we are a bit less polite than other nationalities. And as you say, kids not showing any gratitude for things they get is not very nice, no matter what. So, I think we definitely got something to learn when it comes to being polite.
For me, it still takes some effort to be as polite as one should be when abroad. It's not that I am rude or anything, but it's all those little things that sometimes doesn't come quite natural.. Hard to explain, but I guess you know what I mean..
A very interesting read and observation for another Norwegian and I do agree with you, there are less phrases but more 'real' or 'honest' politeness in the Norwegians conversations.
Remember, I am married to an American, so we've had our conversation about that too :-)
One reflection I had when you talked about table manners: I miss the Americans saying 'Thanks for the food' though.
So to judge about what is rude and not, you ought to have some cultural awareness - some use a lot of words while others shows it otherwise.
Yes you are right - the "thanks for the food" is something you don't hear a lot :)
I think it is very fascinating observing the cultural differences even in our neighbouring countries. Although the can be very subtle, they are nevertheless very real and one should, as you say, definitely be aware of them..
By the way, Renny; I've had some problems opening your blog lately. Are there any problems with it as you know of?
Interesting to read your post about Norwegian politeness/or lack of it. I have the same points of view, and I have also created a facebook group you schould join about this topic (its in Norwegian!):
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8108098687
Yes, it is very hard to always adhere to other cultures where language doesn't always reflect the culture. Working as a Linguist here in Norway has been an interesting journey. The 'please' debate always comes up and as your friend rightly put it, adding a please to a request is a redundancy and at worst almost subservient (this is where culture DOES affects the language). Just make those English speakers understand this!
Aside from 'thanks for the food' (which I think is so utterly polite, I love it) the other heartfelt and polite thing that Norwegians say is 'Takk for sist' - Thanks for the last time we were together ...now how more polite can one get! It is so genuinely meant to...and the concern when one is invited over as a guest for dinner...'Ble du mett?'....Norwegians are certainly not impolite. They are genuine when they are polite. They are polite when it really counts.
I love the Norwegian politeness...and Kenneth, another nice one ..thanks! :-)
Sevika
Those are some fantastic observations, Sevika!
What I have reflected upon is that it can seem that we don't have much of that "formal" kind of politeness - or correctness I should say - that is so prevalent in German or French, or even in English. None of that s'il vous plait, please, or vous/Sie stuff.
But on the other hand, we put a lot of stress on being friendly when we interact with other people. And as you say, most of the time it truly is genuinely meant.
Genial dispatch and this mail helped me alot in my college assignement. Thanks you on your information.
I'm writing a home exam on the topic of politeness in Norway and England (and how they differ) and I find your points very interesting, especially what you said in the last paragraph. I have definitely been inspired by this, and since one of the sections of my essay is dealing with the word "please", this is highly relevant. So thank you! :)
I am married to a Norwegian and the rudeness of her and her family is beyond contempt. Attempting to teach them manners is proving to be very painful for my wife and her sister and parents. Mind you she was born in the United States as was her mother. Her father came here in 1947.
The other characteristic which tend to drive us non family members nuts is that they will never say that they are wrong about anything.
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